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uAvionix (Aerovonics) AV-30 Certified - $1,995

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Just twigged on your words.. "couple of evenings" "weekend" etc.

What is your expectation on install time for the E5? Some quotes I am getting are as much as 40 - 50 hours.. ??

I have studied the manual, and I am no stranger to spending hours resting (?) my head on the rudder pedals. But NOT a pro… I have considerable experience in wiring and making connections etc., have made a living in the electronics industry, but NOT avionics)

Once the seats are out and the overlay is off, I can have an instrument out in my hand it 10 minutes or less unless I have to fight with hoses (grrr) . I have mentally gone through the steps, added 50% to the (my) estimated time and can't get anywhere to 50 hours INCLUDING fabing a doubler for the RMS.

We installed an engine monitor in 35 hours.. with a LOT more wiring and hoses than an Aspen has ever seen... ..

(?)

(Cappy bows to your considerable experience and expertise and with the understanding that *S%&$ happens to extend the time significantly) :)

Your thoughts would be very welcome. :)

Cap

We finished up the one in my 235 in two evenings, but the interior was already out for an annual. Since there were two of us on it, I would figure around 20 to 25 hours at the most of our combined time. The most time consuming parts are getting your panel apart to get to the backplate of the navigator to run the 429 connections and RS232 connections and getting all of the vacuum gauges, lines and stuff pulled out. I prewired most of the aspen connections to the Navigator, Trutrak, power for the aspen and switch on the bench ahead of time so I could get the backplate apart, pin it quickly and then place the switches, connect the new breaker and switch for the apsen and then place the RSM and make it's connections in the Aspen connector and finish assembling it. Mount the Aspen bracket and make the rectangular cutout to your panel overlay (this can be time consuming if you are cutting the old plastic as you have to really take your time, I use a small reciprocating body saw with a fine blade at slow speed and it does a very good job).
It is much easier than an engine monitor install. The Aspen jobs that take a long time are the ones that require an ACU and the goofy transformer circuits that have to be hand built to interface to an old Century autopilot. Those get to be tedious as you are working with those delicate blue amphenol connectors that fall apart in your hands and create new issues.
Without an ACU and hand built circuit the install time is much shorter. Since the Trutrak, Navigator and Aspen are all digital the connections are much quicker, much more reliable and there are not nearly as many wires.
If you add an ACU for an analog Nav/Com like a King 155 or something to input nav data to the Aspen it isn't as time consuming as the Century autopilot stuff, but will add a good bit of time.
On my Lance and on the 235 I did not bother to bring the analog devices into the Aspen and leave them connected to their original CDI which also satisfies the requirement for a backup Navigation CDI in case of failure of the Aspen. Would it be nice to have the analog units also display on the Aspen along with the digital info from the Navigator.... yes, but not for the added hours and $1000 for an ACU that I don't need otherwise since I have a digital autopilot.
I've already prewired my Lance install. I had a plastic blank over an old annunciator I pulled out from the old Apollo setup I removed last year, so I made a metal plate to fit there, put in the power switch for the aspen, the NAV/ASPEN selector switch and the breaker and pre wired it all. I will slide it into place, pull the wires to the appropriate locations, pin them out into the NAV and Aspen, hook up the power and grounds, etc... and it will cut down on a lot of time of having to have the airplane apart and in the way on the shop floor.
 
Flew 1.4 hours without turning on my A/P today. The old mechanical DG did a great job keeping me on course (heading bug helps), and yes, I did use the compass correction card to subtract 3 deg from my mag-compass heading when initially setting the DG. :)

I don't see any need to get rid of the mechanical instrument soon. But when the day comes that it eventually fails, the AV-30 will be high on my list, as the least-ugly all-digital alternative.
 
Hi Rick!

We plan on moving the Vac AI down to the TC hole and keeping the vacuum system until it becomes trouble. (redundant system to electrical) .

What are your thoughts around this?

Cap
Yes, that's what I'm going to do. I'll remove the electric gyro. Install the AV-30. Keep the vaccum system until it gives me trouble. The vaccum AI is required to drive my autopilot but the turn/slip is not.

Or... when I have money burning a hole my my pocket and I just gotta have altitude preset with climb/descent rate I'll be seriously interested in a new autopilot. I'm hoping the TrueTrak becomes approach certified.

Also the comments about vertical guidance on the Aspen E5 might make it more attractive, if it actually drives the autopilot pitch control.

So.. wait and see. I suspect by the time of OshKosh we'll have a clear understanding of these new products' roadmap.
 
Yes, that's what I'm going to do. I'll remove the electric gyro. Install the AV-30. Keep the vaccum system until it gives me trouble. The vaccum AI is required to drive my autopilot but the turn/slip is not.

Or... when I have money burning a hole my my pocket and I just gotta have altitude preset with climb/descent rate I'll be seriously interested in a new autopilot. I'm hoping the TrueTrak becomes approach certified.

Also the comments about vertical guidance on the Aspen E5 might make it more attractive, if it actually drives the autopilot pitch control.

So.. wait and see. I suspect by the time of OshKosh we'll have a clear understanding of these new products' roadmap.


So I am old school, but I LOVE redundancy, and am hanging on to the vac system as well.. Back up instruments are essential, but I feel a backup power source is also essential. Certainly a good reason NOT to remove it unnecessarily...

The TruTrak has worked VERY well for me (18 months in so far) , and has exceeded all expectations. The E5 is in the plan, waiting for the Alt and VS flags to be transmitted to the TT in the next software update, (they WILL drive the vertical) which will include a full HSI at no cost.

Approach cert .. in no hurry yet, as I need an approach certed navigator first. ($)

If the Vac sys was troublesome, might change my mind, but so far.... all good...

Cap
 
So I am old school, but I LOVE redundancy, and am hanging on to the vac system as well.. Back up instruments are essential, but I feel a backup power source is also essential. Certainly a good reason NOT to remove it unnecessarily...

The TruTrak has worked VERY well for me (18 months in so far) , and has exceeded all expectations. The E5 is in the plan, waiting for the Alt and VS flags to be transmitted to the TT in the next software update, (they WILL drive the vertical) which will include a full HSI at no cost.

Approach cert .. in no hurry yet, as I need an approach certed navigator first. ($)

If the Vac sys was troublesome, might change my mind, but so far.... all good...

Cap
That's just the thing. In ye olden days, a vacuum failure was seriously dangerous in slippery retractable planes: they could get into a spiral in a few seconds, the autopilot would go U/S because it depended on the attitude indicator, and even experienced pilots simply didn't have enough practice hand flying with just the TC, ASI, and ALT to keep the dirty side down, especially under stress.

These days, with autopilots that are independent of the vacuum system (not just the new gen, but the decades-old rate-based STECs as well) and cheap AHRS as a backup, it's a really-different situation—and it never was the same level of risk in our draggy, fixed-gear planes anyway—so why not stick with the vacuum as a backup (or even primary, in my case)?
 
So I am old school, but I LOVE redundancy, and am hanging on to the vac system as well.. Back up instruments are essential, but I feel a backup power source is also essential. Certainly a good reason NOT to remove it unnecessarily...

The TruTrak has worked VERY well for me (18 months in so far) , and has exceeded all expectations. The E5 is in the plan, waiting for the Alt and VS flags to be transmitted to the TT in the next software update, (they WILL drive the vertical) which will include a full HSI at no cost.

Approach cert .. in no hurry yet, as I need an approach certed navigator first. ($)

If the Vac sys was troublesome, might change my mind, but so far.... all good...

Cap
So you are using the TT without any glass? Is it just following the GPS?
 
So you are using the TT without any glass? Is it just following the GPS?


Yes.. no glass needed. Either following either GPS or its own internal gyros which work VERY well.

Point and go... :) or RS232 steering from the portable 796 GPS or GPSS steering (ARINC 429) Data from the panel GPS.

The TruTrak is a complete, standalone autopilot. Nothing else needed. After that plug in any RS232 or ARINC 429 Navigator. The TT doesn't know or care as long as it gets the data, (vertical or lateral) that it needs.

It will dutifully follow what ever you wish... (no AI or DG needed)

Cap
 
Yes.. no glass needed. Either following either GPS or its own internal gyros which work VERY well.

Point and go... :) or RS232 steering from the portable 796 GPS or GPSS steering (ARINC 429) Data from the panel GPS.

The TruTrak is a complete, standalone autopilot. Nothing else needed. After that plug in any RS232 or ARINC 429 Navigator. The TT doesn't know or care as long as it gets the data, (vertical or lateral) that it needs.

It will dutifully follow what ever you wish... (no AI or DG needed)

Cap
So it seems that the only thing I would get with "autopilot integration" is the ability to control autopilot heading from the DG. Interesting.
 
Yes.. no glass needed. Either following either GPS or its own internal gyros which work VERY well.

Point and go... :) or RS232 steering from the portable 796 GPS or GPSS steering (ARINC 429) Data from the panel GPS.

The TruTrak is a complete, standalone autopilot. Nothing else needed. After that plug in any RS232 or ARINC 429 Navigator. The TT doesn't know or care as long as it gets the data, (vertical or lateral) that it needs.

It will dutifully follow what ever you wish... (no AI or DG needed)

Cap

When I was shopping for avionics 2+ years ago I had the understanding that I could not legally drive my Century 21 AP with a portable GPS in a certified aircraft. Somehow this is allowable with TruTrak which is great.
 
So it seems that the only thing I would get with "autopilot integration" is the ability to control autopilot heading from the DG. Interesting.



Hmmmm… depends what you "integrate" with..

Limited with some, but with the Aspen, you will get now, Baro synch and Heading or track, and shortly (in the next Aspen software upgrade) Alt Bug and VS select. (And a full HSI)

Aspen and TT have ben in bed with this for a long time, and are committed to working together.

TT now has the (by far) the dominant market position in an installed base... so other manufacturers are anxious to integrate with them... (except Garmin of course, but that's another story…. )

Worth the wait IMHO..

Cap
 

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