Flying_Monkey
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This will be a multi-part post about my 1973 Cherokee Challenger PA28-180- from purchase, through improvements, to the final delivery from Florida to California....
THE BUYING PROCESS
I posted sometime in September or October of 2014 a general inquiry about buying advice for purchasing a Cherokee, asking for advice and real world speeds and performance/experience. I received SO MANY helpful comments and lots of expert guidance here. Im most appreciative of that and hope that this thread detailing my buying process as well as some great work Don (flyguydon) did on the plane in the past few months can help someone out in the future in a similar situation.
After gathering lots of great info, I narrowed my search down to a 1973 or later Cherokee 180. Family of 4 going on weekend/weeklong trips regionally is the mission. My kids are little and probably wont top out over 100-110 lbs. My wife is about 100 pounds too. I went for the 1973 and later because of the stretched fuselage of these models (extra legroom) compared to the pre 1973 models. I still kept the options open for a pre 1973 model in case a great deal came up.
I searched a lot on Barnstormers, Trade-A-Plane and Controller..called a lot of owners and a few dealers to get a sense for what it would be like. It was definitely hit or miss with the interest and friendliness level of the sellers. I was pretty surprised to find that a lot of sellers did not have the logbooks scanned and available online. As a seller, it seems like youd do whatever you could to maximize the perspective buyer base. I decided I would only be interested in planes that the owner would send digital logs and I wouldn't travel to see a plane until I had at least reviewed the logs thoroughly (with the help of someone who actually knows what theyre looking at!).
I was looking for a low time engine and a plane that had at least a Garmin 430W and a reasonable amount of total time. Something that had decent paint and interior and wouldn't require a lot of work to be flyable and presentable and something that had decent avionics.
After some back and forth with sellers on other planes I finally locked on to one that came up on Barnstormers. I really think part of the key is to check every day or multiple times a day until something comes up and then jump on it. A lot of people told me the good ones will be gone quickly. I did just that.
The plane is a 1973 Cherokee Challenger and had about 400 SMOH (Lycoming Factory Overhaul) since 97. The logs looked really good, although it hadn't been flown a whole lot since the overhaul. The seller had owned it for about a year and a half and said he was thinking of moving into a Bonanza and still not sure he really wanted to sell it. And importantly, the seller was very agreeable and seemed really honest. I got a good feeling about it from the get go. I checked the Vref on the plane and offered just under it- I knew I couldn't lowball. He had said he listed it partly just to see what the interest would be. We agreed on a price below his asking price but something we both thought was fair. I drafted an agreement to purchase contingent on a prebuy, with a time limit to make everyone comfortable that this would not drag on. I sent a nominal refundable deposit and started the pre buy process. Here is the original listing description:
1973 Piper Challenger PA28-180
N55585
Price: $51,000 USD
Airframe: 4234 TT
Engine: 331 SMOH - Lycoming O-360-A4A (by Lycoming - Factory Overhaul 5/1997)
Propeller: McCauley 1A170 232.5 Since NEW, (5/2000)
Max Gross Takeoff Weight: 2450 lbs
Basic Empty Weight: 1,505 lbs
Useful Load: 945 lbs
Useable Fuel Capacity: 48 Gallons
General:
[*]Prop Strike @ 4001 Hrs. 5/2000 (While Taxiing - Teardown by Triad, New McCaulley Prop) All documents attached.
[*]Aircraft hangared at Cherokee County Airport (KCNI) in Canton, GA
[*]Always US Based and Hangared last 25 years.
[*]Complete Logbooks available for download:
Annual Inspection Due 6/2015
[*]IFR Inspection Due 7/2015
[*]All AD's in compliance
[*]Service Bulletin AB1245, NEW Rudder and Stabilator Cables installed 5/2014
[*]Engine Compressions at Last Annual: 78/78/79/79
AVIONICS
[*]NEW Garmin 430WAAS installed 2/2014
[*]NEW Garmin 1016A GPS Indicator Installed 2/2014
[*]King KX-155 with KI-206 Indicator (VOR Only)
[*]NARCO AT165 TSO Transponder (NEW ENCODER 5/2013)
[*]PS1000 4 place Intercom with stereo jack
Miscellaneous Recent Maintenance
[*]NEW Lamar Voltage Regulator 6/2014
[*]NEW Split Master Switch 6/2014
[*]NEW Gill Battery 10/2013
[*]NEW Nose Tire 5/2014
[*]NEW Rudder and Stabilator Control Cables 5/2014
[*]Both Fuel Tanks Resealed by Woodstock 7/2013
[*]NEW Fuel and Oil Lines 5/2014
Exterior
Complete strip and paint with Imron 1979 (6.5)
Plexiglass in excellent condition (9)
NEW Upper and Lower Tail Fairing installed May, 2014 by S&S Aviation
Interior
NEW Pilot and Co-Pilot Carpet (7/2014)
Airtex Carpet in 1991 Passenger and Baggage Compartments (Good Condition)
Plastic in Good Condition but could use touch up.
Door Plastic in Fair condition could use replacing.
Airtex Seats in 1991 (Good Condition)
The plane was in Atlanta and Im in Los Angeles. Based on the logs, extensive pictures of the worst parts of the plane the seller had sent, I was pretty confident in the condition of the plane so didn't feel the need to see it before the pre buy. Prebuy was fairly thorough- borescope engine, corrosion checks all around, AD list to check compliance, etc etc. There were only some minor squawks that came up during the pre buy but nothing outstanding that would prevent me from buying the plane. I was concerned about low flight time over so many years but seller understandably didn't want to pull a cylinder so we decided to pull a magneto and check for corrosion- if that were corroded then the bottom would most likely have it. Don was supremely helpful in helping me out during the pre buy with lots of education and advice. Everything ended up looking really good and I flew out to Atlanta to close the deal. We flew the plane together as a formality and Ill never forget that day - although it was a total whirlwind since I flew in leaving really early from L.A. and rushed to finalize the deal and fly the plane before sundown The next morning I had to leave early so I barely got to spend any time with the plane! The whole process was made so great because the seller was so nice and accommodating- he even picked me up from the airport and took me back. I think a lot of folks in aviation understand life is about the journey and the experience, the people you meet along the way. It kind of makes sense since in aviation we all enjoy going places- not just getting there but the actual going. Not surprising it attracts people with this outlook and understanding.
Don had been so helpful to me throughout this process and he offered to check the plane out if I couldn't make it. I mentioned I wanted to do some cosmetic work on it and he offered to pick it up and fly it back to his place in Florida and do some work. 2 days after I purchased the plane, Don and a friend of his picked up the plane as promised and brought it back to 15FL to start the next chapter in this adventure
Pictures:
1. Just after closing the deal and flying the plane for the first time in Atlanta
2. Don's picture from the trip from Atlanta to 15FL in Florida
3. N55585 at Don's place before work started
THE BUYING PROCESS
I posted sometime in September or October of 2014 a general inquiry about buying advice for purchasing a Cherokee, asking for advice and real world speeds and performance/experience. I received SO MANY helpful comments and lots of expert guidance here. Im most appreciative of that and hope that this thread detailing my buying process as well as some great work Don (flyguydon) did on the plane in the past few months can help someone out in the future in a similar situation.
After gathering lots of great info, I narrowed my search down to a 1973 or later Cherokee 180. Family of 4 going on weekend/weeklong trips regionally is the mission. My kids are little and probably wont top out over 100-110 lbs. My wife is about 100 pounds too. I went for the 1973 and later because of the stretched fuselage of these models (extra legroom) compared to the pre 1973 models. I still kept the options open for a pre 1973 model in case a great deal came up.
I searched a lot on Barnstormers, Trade-A-Plane and Controller..called a lot of owners and a few dealers to get a sense for what it would be like. It was definitely hit or miss with the interest and friendliness level of the sellers. I was pretty surprised to find that a lot of sellers did not have the logbooks scanned and available online. As a seller, it seems like youd do whatever you could to maximize the perspective buyer base. I decided I would only be interested in planes that the owner would send digital logs and I wouldn't travel to see a plane until I had at least reviewed the logs thoroughly (with the help of someone who actually knows what theyre looking at!).
I was looking for a low time engine and a plane that had at least a Garmin 430W and a reasonable amount of total time. Something that had decent paint and interior and wouldn't require a lot of work to be flyable and presentable and something that had decent avionics.
After some back and forth with sellers on other planes I finally locked on to one that came up on Barnstormers. I really think part of the key is to check every day or multiple times a day until something comes up and then jump on it. A lot of people told me the good ones will be gone quickly. I did just that.
The plane is a 1973 Cherokee Challenger and had about 400 SMOH (Lycoming Factory Overhaul) since 97. The logs looked really good, although it hadn't been flown a whole lot since the overhaul. The seller had owned it for about a year and a half and said he was thinking of moving into a Bonanza and still not sure he really wanted to sell it. And importantly, the seller was very agreeable and seemed really honest. I got a good feeling about it from the get go. I checked the Vref on the plane and offered just under it- I knew I couldn't lowball. He had said he listed it partly just to see what the interest would be. We agreed on a price below his asking price but something we both thought was fair. I drafted an agreement to purchase contingent on a prebuy, with a time limit to make everyone comfortable that this would not drag on. I sent a nominal refundable deposit and started the pre buy process. Here is the original listing description:
1973 Piper Challenger PA28-180
N55585
Price: $51,000 USD
Airframe: 4234 TT
Engine: 331 SMOH - Lycoming O-360-A4A (by Lycoming - Factory Overhaul 5/1997)
Propeller: McCauley 1A170 232.5 Since NEW, (5/2000)
Max Gross Takeoff Weight: 2450 lbs
Basic Empty Weight: 1,505 lbs
Useful Load: 945 lbs
Useable Fuel Capacity: 48 Gallons
General:
[*]Prop Strike @ 4001 Hrs. 5/2000 (While Taxiing - Teardown by Triad, New McCaulley Prop) All documents attached.
[*]Aircraft hangared at Cherokee County Airport (KCNI) in Canton, GA
[*]Always US Based and Hangared last 25 years.
[*]Complete Logbooks available for download:
Annual Inspection Due 6/2015
[*]IFR Inspection Due 7/2015
[*]All AD's in compliance
[*]Service Bulletin AB1245, NEW Rudder and Stabilator Cables installed 5/2014
[*]Engine Compressions at Last Annual: 78/78/79/79
AVIONICS
[*]NEW Garmin 430WAAS installed 2/2014
[*]NEW Garmin 1016A GPS Indicator Installed 2/2014
[*]King KX-155 with KI-206 Indicator (VOR Only)
[*]NARCO AT165 TSO Transponder (NEW ENCODER 5/2013)
[*]PS1000 4 place Intercom with stereo jack
Miscellaneous Recent Maintenance
[*]NEW Lamar Voltage Regulator 6/2014
[*]NEW Split Master Switch 6/2014
[*]NEW Gill Battery 10/2013
[*]NEW Nose Tire 5/2014
[*]NEW Rudder and Stabilator Control Cables 5/2014
[*]Both Fuel Tanks Resealed by Woodstock 7/2013
[*]NEW Fuel and Oil Lines 5/2014
Exterior
Complete strip and paint with Imron 1979 (6.5)
Plexiglass in excellent condition (9)
NEW Upper and Lower Tail Fairing installed May, 2014 by S&S Aviation
Interior
NEW Pilot and Co-Pilot Carpet (7/2014)
Airtex Carpet in 1991 Passenger and Baggage Compartments (Good Condition)
Plastic in Good Condition but could use touch up.
Door Plastic in Fair condition could use replacing.
Airtex Seats in 1991 (Good Condition)
The plane was in Atlanta and Im in Los Angeles. Based on the logs, extensive pictures of the worst parts of the plane the seller had sent, I was pretty confident in the condition of the plane so didn't feel the need to see it before the pre buy. Prebuy was fairly thorough- borescope engine, corrosion checks all around, AD list to check compliance, etc etc. There were only some minor squawks that came up during the pre buy but nothing outstanding that would prevent me from buying the plane. I was concerned about low flight time over so many years but seller understandably didn't want to pull a cylinder so we decided to pull a magneto and check for corrosion- if that were corroded then the bottom would most likely have it. Don was supremely helpful in helping me out during the pre buy with lots of education and advice. Everything ended up looking really good and I flew out to Atlanta to close the deal. We flew the plane together as a formality and Ill never forget that day - although it was a total whirlwind since I flew in leaving really early from L.A. and rushed to finalize the deal and fly the plane before sundown The next morning I had to leave early so I barely got to spend any time with the plane! The whole process was made so great because the seller was so nice and accommodating- he even picked me up from the airport and took me back. I think a lot of folks in aviation understand life is about the journey and the experience, the people you meet along the way. It kind of makes sense since in aviation we all enjoy going places- not just getting there but the actual going. Not surprising it attracts people with this outlook and understanding.
Don had been so helpful to me throughout this process and he offered to check the plane out if I couldn't make it. I mentioned I wanted to do some cosmetic work on it and he offered to pick it up and fly it back to his place in Florida and do some work. 2 days after I purchased the plane, Don and a friend of his picked up the plane as promised and brought it back to 15FL to start the next chapter in this adventure
Pictures:
1. Just after closing the deal and flying the plane for the first time in Atlanta
2. Don's picture from the trip from Atlanta to 15FL in Florida
3. N55585 at Don's place before work started
