- Joined
- Apr 15, 2020
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Hey guys,
Some of this info is cross-posted on the PA22 sub-forum, but I figured I'd post here too when I realized that I am not set on PA28 vs PA22. It will probably get more traffic here anyway!
I have a feeling that the current crisis will unfortunately soften up the market for airplanes. So I figure I'll try to make lemonade from lemons and possibly buy my first plane! I'm not in a rush to buy, but I want to be ready if a good opportunity pops up.
I want my first aircraft to have low acquisition costs (budget of $35k or less), low fuel burn and overhaul costs (cuts out engines above 180hp), low insurance costs (cuts taildraggers out), low annual inspection costs (cuts retractable gear out), a cruise speed of at least 100mph, 4 seats (though 2 will almost always be empty), a good fun-factor to it, the range for some regional exploring, and the ability to operate from short-ish grass and gravel strips when loaded light. I want to go camping and also hit some beaches once I get the proper training to do backcountry flying. I operate near MSL and my fiancee and I weight 280 lbs combined.
I'm a low-time pilot with about 150 hours, half of them in a PA28 140/160. I enjoyed the PA28 much more than the C172s I got my PPL in, so I initially gravitated toward the PA28. They cost about 30% less than comparable horsepower C172s. I also believe their build quality is generally superior, and their nose landing gear is much stronger, which is relevant for backcountry use. Obviously wing clearance on poorly-maintained strips is an issue, and you can't camp under the wing. To get good short-field performance, I probably need to go up to the 180hp model, which burns more fuel, and is toward the upper limit of my budget range for acquisition costs.
This got me thinking about the 150 or 160hp PA22. It seems like decent ones can be had for $20k +/- 5. They give up surprisingly little in cruise to the PA28, and get good short field performance from a 150 or 160hp o320 that doesn't guzzle gas and isn't terribly expensive to overhaul. One issue is that I live in Eastern MA, and hangar rentals seem very expensive. Tie-downs are actually quite reasonable though. With the PA22, I would probably have to buy a cover, which is fine but would add to my pre and post-flight procedures. With the PA28 it would be a non-issue. The second consideration is that it seems like the quality of PA22s varies much more than the quality of PA28s. The additional variability makes sense considering that they are older, and that fabric coverings probably have more variables to them than metal ones do.
I do envision having a second aircraft that's more of a cruiser, and that I can get my IFR rating in. If the PA28 would let me do that and also let me grow as a backcountry pilot, then that's a huge point to consider in its favor. If it would be unfit for backcountry work, then it may not be the right aircraft for me at this time. The biggest issue is that the PA28 is at the top of my budget, and I'm worried that I might not be able to get a good one for this price. What horsepower would I really need to fly my mission? It seems like there's not a huge price increase between 140s and 160s, but 180s seem to be more expensive.
I just got out of the Army, where I served as a Blackhawk mechanic and crew chief. I didn't get my A&P because I moved into a flight company, but I do think I could get an A&P or IA to let me help with annuals, engine work, etc. I'll be finishing my masters in mechanical engineering next month and have been itching to wrench on aircraft since I left the Army in December. I think I'm equipped to shave some maintenance labor hours off of my cost of ownership.
Here are my cost expectations for a PA28. Please let me know if any of them seem off!
- Fuel burn ($5/gal @ 9gal/hr) - $45/hr
- Insurance for low-timer ($1000/yr @ 100hr/yr) - $10/hr
- Tie-down costs ($1000/yr @ 100hr/yr) - $10/hr
- Overhaul reserve ($20000 / 2000hr) - $10/hr
- Annual ($1500?/yr / 100 hr/yr) - $15/hr
- 100 hr - no idea.
- Other maintenance - no idea.
- I'm not factoring in depreciation because it seems like it would be small on a PA28 that fits my budget.
As a parting thought, how many hours a year would I need to fly in a PA28 before it makes more sense to buy than to rent? I know buying has intangible perks to it. I just want to have an idea of where the economic break-even is.
Thanks!
Steve
Some of this info is cross-posted on the PA22 sub-forum, but I figured I'd post here too when I realized that I am not set on PA28 vs PA22. It will probably get more traffic here anyway!
I have a feeling that the current crisis will unfortunately soften up the market for airplanes. So I figure I'll try to make lemonade from lemons and possibly buy my first plane! I'm not in a rush to buy, but I want to be ready if a good opportunity pops up.
I want my first aircraft to have low acquisition costs (budget of $35k or less), low fuel burn and overhaul costs (cuts out engines above 180hp), low insurance costs (cuts taildraggers out), low annual inspection costs (cuts retractable gear out), a cruise speed of at least 100mph, 4 seats (though 2 will almost always be empty), a good fun-factor to it, the range for some regional exploring, and the ability to operate from short-ish grass and gravel strips when loaded light. I want to go camping and also hit some beaches once I get the proper training to do backcountry flying. I operate near MSL and my fiancee and I weight 280 lbs combined.
I'm a low-time pilot with about 150 hours, half of them in a PA28 140/160. I enjoyed the PA28 much more than the C172s I got my PPL in, so I initially gravitated toward the PA28. They cost about 30% less than comparable horsepower C172s. I also believe their build quality is generally superior, and their nose landing gear is much stronger, which is relevant for backcountry use. Obviously wing clearance on poorly-maintained strips is an issue, and you can't camp under the wing. To get good short-field performance, I probably need to go up to the 180hp model, which burns more fuel, and is toward the upper limit of my budget range for acquisition costs.
This got me thinking about the 150 or 160hp PA22. It seems like decent ones can be had for $20k +/- 5. They give up surprisingly little in cruise to the PA28, and get good short field performance from a 150 or 160hp o320 that doesn't guzzle gas and isn't terribly expensive to overhaul. One issue is that I live in Eastern MA, and hangar rentals seem very expensive. Tie-downs are actually quite reasonable though. With the PA22, I would probably have to buy a cover, which is fine but would add to my pre and post-flight procedures. With the PA28 it would be a non-issue. The second consideration is that it seems like the quality of PA22s varies much more than the quality of PA28s. The additional variability makes sense considering that they are older, and that fabric coverings probably have more variables to them than metal ones do.
I do envision having a second aircraft that's more of a cruiser, and that I can get my IFR rating in. If the PA28 would let me do that and also let me grow as a backcountry pilot, then that's a huge point to consider in its favor. If it would be unfit for backcountry work, then it may not be the right aircraft for me at this time. The biggest issue is that the PA28 is at the top of my budget, and I'm worried that I might not be able to get a good one for this price. What horsepower would I really need to fly my mission? It seems like there's not a huge price increase between 140s and 160s, but 180s seem to be more expensive.
I just got out of the Army, where I served as a Blackhawk mechanic and crew chief. I didn't get my A&P because I moved into a flight company, but I do think I could get an A&P or IA to let me help with annuals, engine work, etc. I'll be finishing my masters in mechanical engineering next month and have been itching to wrench on aircraft since I left the Army in December. I think I'm equipped to shave some maintenance labor hours off of my cost of ownership.
Here are my cost expectations for a PA28. Please let me know if any of them seem off!
- Fuel burn ($5/gal @ 9gal/hr) - $45/hr
- Insurance for low-timer ($1000/yr @ 100hr/yr) - $10/hr
- Tie-down costs ($1000/yr @ 100hr/yr) - $10/hr
- Overhaul reserve ($20000 / 2000hr) - $10/hr
- Annual ($1500?/yr / 100 hr/yr) - $15/hr
- 100 hr - no idea.
- Other maintenance - no idea.
- I'm not factoring in depreciation because it seems like it would be small on a PA28 that fits my budget.
As a parting thought, how many hours a year would I need to fly in a PA28 before it makes more sense to buy than to rent? I know buying has intangible perks to it. I just want to have an idea of where the economic break-even is.
Thanks!
Steve
