Good morning!
I'm an instrument rated private pilot from Upstate NY and am finally getting my feet wet flying to destinations in Canada. Last month, we flew IFR to Billy Bishop Airport in Toronto (the view of the skyline on approach is absolutely phenomenal). I did a lot of research beforehand, got (and read) the appropriate Canadian publications, and the whole flight went very well.
Yesterday, we flew to Bromont (CZBM), an uncontrolled airport east of Montreal in Quebec under Class E airspace. On the way in, I heard a phrase from Montreal Center that I found to be confusing (which is not fun in IMC) and I am hoping that some of the folks here that regularly fly in the Canadian system might be able to fill in the gaps for me. I'll apologize in advance if I mis-remember exactly what was said (because it was unfamiliar phrasing), but I will sum up to the best of my memory.
We were on an IFR flight plan at 7,000 in IMC and talking with Montreal Center while crossing the Canadian border north of Burlington, VT. Montreal cleared us for a descent and requested that we report passing through 5,000 feet. I'm not sure about the significance of 5,000 feet, though it does match up with the MSA given on the approach plate for the RNAV 5 approach (not sure if this is causal or coincidence). My expectations from flying in the US to an uncontrolled airport under Class E airspace was that ATC would clear me for a specific approach, clear me to a specific fix on that approach, provide an altitude to maintain until established, then approve a change to the advisory frequency (in the case of Bromont, the Mandatory Frequency) after becoming established. Instead, when I reported descending through 5,000 feet, I was told "cleared to depart controlled airspace for approach", given permission to change frequencies, and provided with the phone number to cancel IFR from the ground.
This threw me. I asked the Center controller if this meant that we were approved to start the approach and he affirmed that we were, then reiterated that we were cleared out of controlled airspace (no clearance was given for the approach, presumably because we were no longer in controlled airspace). We were given no "maintain XXX altitude until established" or a "proceed direct [waypoint]". We descended to one of the initial approach fixes and flew the approach while negotiating a pattern entry with UNICOM and the glider traffic at Bromont (really nice airport and really friendly people at Bromont, by the way).
So everything worked out in the end, but this was uncomfortable.
I was in Class E airspace down to 700 feet (unless I misread the VNC chart), yet Center seemed to indicate that my descent below 5000 put me into uncontrolled airspace. Does Canada treat Class E differently for instrument traffic than the US? From my reading of the Canadian AIM, I did not think this was the case, but there must be a subtlety here that I do not understand.
There is some terrain around Bromont (a few monadnocks scattered around the area) and we were in IMC from 7,000 feet down to 2,500 with an MSA of 5,000 given on the procedure for a 25 nautical mile radius around the airport. Because we were not assigned any altitudes until established (just told to descend) or any specific waypoints (there were two available initial approach fixes, I chose the closest), it feels as though there was a disconnect in transitioning from the en route structure to being safely established on the approach at 2200 feet. Can someone fill in the gaps for me? In this scenario, how is terrain avoidance managed? What am I missing?
Thanks in advance for your insights.
I'm an instrument rated private pilot from Upstate NY and am finally getting my feet wet flying to destinations in Canada. Last month, we flew IFR to Billy Bishop Airport in Toronto (the view of the skyline on approach is absolutely phenomenal). I did a lot of research beforehand, got (and read) the appropriate Canadian publications, and the whole flight went very well.
Yesterday, we flew to Bromont (CZBM), an uncontrolled airport east of Montreal in Quebec under Class E airspace. On the way in, I heard a phrase from Montreal Center that I found to be confusing (which is not fun in IMC) and I am hoping that some of the folks here that regularly fly in the Canadian system might be able to fill in the gaps for me. I'll apologize in advance if I mis-remember exactly what was said (because it was unfamiliar phrasing), but I will sum up to the best of my memory.
We were on an IFR flight plan at 7,000 in IMC and talking with Montreal Center while crossing the Canadian border north of Burlington, VT. Montreal cleared us for a descent and requested that we report passing through 5,000 feet. I'm not sure about the significance of 5,000 feet, though it does match up with the MSA given on the approach plate for the RNAV 5 approach (not sure if this is causal or coincidence). My expectations from flying in the US to an uncontrolled airport under Class E airspace was that ATC would clear me for a specific approach, clear me to a specific fix on that approach, provide an altitude to maintain until established, then approve a change to the advisory frequency (in the case of Bromont, the Mandatory Frequency) after becoming established. Instead, when I reported descending through 5,000 feet, I was told "cleared to depart controlled airspace for approach", given permission to change frequencies, and provided with the phone number to cancel IFR from the ground.
This threw me. I asked the Center controller if this meant that we were approved to start the approach and he affirmed that we were, then reiterated that we were cleared out of controlled airspace (no clearance was given for the approach, presumably because we were no longer in controlled airspace). We were given no "maintain XXX altitude until established" or a "proceed direct [waypoint]". We descended to one of the initial approach fixes and flew the approach while negotiating a pattern entry with UNICOM and the glider traffic at Bromont (really nice airport and really friendly people at Bromont, by the way).
So everything worked out in the end, but this was uncomfortable.
I was in Class E airspace down to 700 feet (unless I misread the VNC chart), yet Center seemed to indicate that my descent below 5000 put me into uncontrolled airspace. Does Canada treat Class E differently for instrument traffic than the US? From my reading of the Canadian AIM, I did not think this was the case, but there must be a subtlety here that I do not understand.
There is some terrain around Bromont (a few monadnocks scattered around the area) and we were in IMC from 7,000 feet down to 2,500 with an MSA of 5,000 given on the procedure for a 25 nautical mile radius around the airport. Because we were not assigned any altitudes until established (just told to descend) or any specific waypoints (there were two available initial approach fixes, I chose the closest), it feels as though there was a disconnect in transitioning from the en route structure to being safely established on the approach at 2200 feet. Can someone fill in the gaps for me? In this scenario, how is terrain avoidance managed? What am I missing?
Thanks in advance for your insights.
