I now have a O-360A4M in my 1974 Warrior PA28-151. I did the switch at about 1993 hours on my O320E3D (Ram 160hp). The engine was running great, and in fact had new Superior cylinder assemblies about 450 hours old and with new rings and hone 30 hours ago and my plan was to keep flying it. What went wrong is another story, and I would not go with Superior again. However, a O360A4M came along and forced my hand so the swap was done at this annual.
There are two active STCs for the engine upgrade, AVCON (Bob Williams) and Bold-Warrior (Kent Gorton). I had purchased the AVCON STC a while back to have it because it was the only one that worked with the 74-75 Warriors and I didn't want to risk an STC not being available when I was ready to go. Sadly, the AVCON route was not a pretty one and when the Bold-Warrior STC became available for my plane I bought that one and didn't use the AVCON. Details if anyone is interested
Kent Gorton at CAVU Wings LLC was great to work with. His STC instructions are easy to follow and he contributed lots of pictures and was always available for advice. The swap is not very difficult, though it only makes sense at a TBO re-engine. Other than the O360, hardest part is finding the carb air box from a Cherokee 180 or early Archer. Then the box has to be modified to fit the Warrior round ducts from the carb heat outlet on the muffler and from the round ducts from the air filter. The shaft is typically worn out also and the result is a bit of thin wall aluminum welding and flapper plate rebuilding. Total cost in the $1200 to $1400 range. Modifying the engine baffling is also necessary to provide an inch or so more width and some minor brazing work on the mufflers and downpipes. Other than those points, the engine just drops in and uses the same spinner and spinner bulkheads, but the holes for the prop bolts on the bulkheads have to be enlarged to 1/2".
I anticipated a long search for a O360 and staked out a number of likely websites and forums. Vans AF Classified Ads forum ultimately got me a great engine, 1170 hrs pretty much overhauled after a minor prop strike. The shop bill (from a great shop) was $18,400, which I paid for it, which shows you why the salvage yard engines don't make sense. If you get one for $12K you will have $30K in it and could buy a RAM Lycoming factory rebuilt for not much more. The parts list tells most of the story and it adds up. However, I am anticipating the engine will perform as if it was SMOH. If I had gotten involved earlier I could have included the few parts that would have been necessary for actual SMOH. Once I sell the O320E3D I should be in the $12K-13K range engine wise.
Of course, there was a new prop and I went factory new for a 62 pitch 76 inch prop, same as Archer III. That was $4600 but once I sell the Warrior 74 inch 60 pitch prop (OH by Sensenich) I should be down by a half.
Every engine change at TBO also needs motor mounts, starter (Sky Tech), vacuum pump, alternator (PlanePower) and in this case a modern voltage regulator. The front spinner bulkhead was also cracked and I got held up $930 from Avial as none of the PMA versions were in stock until June (but you know how backorders go). That item was not airworthy in any case so shrug and write the check.
I haven't added up all the numbers, but it doesn't look like, in the end, the result will be dramatically different, after selling the engine and prop, from a O320 new limits overhaul at TBO. Labor was about $3K, not counting the $700 annual and most of the other parts replaced would have been done anyway. Frankly, I think a lot of the airplane ownership numbers are better left untotaled--you found the money and the deals were good so just leave it and go fly.
Speaking of flying, I have about three hours in the plane and the results are great. The air has been pretty turbulent in Central Ohio for the last week so VNO has been limiting me as the yellow arc starts at about 143 mph. Seeing the needle in the yellow arc with below cruise RPM is obviously new to me and shows the difference the HP makes. Climb is much stronger all the way up to cruising altitudes that used to take a while to get to. My takeoff habits are being modified as I always did a quick check of the gauges and glanced at the ASI several times during the takeoff roll. Now, things happen faster with the acceleration so as I pass 50mph and glance down for green needles the airplane is flying before another look at the ASI.
I am happy with this decision and would do it again. Whatever the numbers turn out to be with more testing, the performance is a step up to a new level. Subjectively, the airplane is just quieter and feels more solid. That may be lower RPMs but also a deeper engine note.
Bold-Warrior (CAVU Wings LLC) will also have a new 180 HP STC for the Cherokee 140 and I can't say enough good things about Kent Gorton.
There are two active STCs for the engine upgrade, AVCON (Bob Williams) and Bold-Warrior (Kent Gorton). I had purchased the AVCON STC a while back to have it because it was the only one that worked with the 74-75 Warriors and I didn't want to risk an STC not being available when I was ready to go. Sadly, the AVCON route was not a pretty one and when the Bold-Warrior STC became available for my plane I bought that one and didn't use the AVCON. Details if anyone is interested
Kent Gorton at CAVU Wings LLC was great to work with. His STC instructions are easy to follow and he contributed lots of pictures and was always available for advice. The swap is not very difficult, though it only makes sense at a TBO re-engine. Other than the O360, hardest part is finding the carb air box from a Cherokee 180 or early Archer. Then the box has to be modified to fit the Warrior round ducts from the carb heat outlet on the muffler and from the round ducts from the air filter. The shaft is typically worn out also and the result is a bit of thin wall aluminum welding and flapper plate rebuilding. Total cost in the $1200 to $1400 range. Modifying the engine baffling is also necessary to provide an inch or so more width and some minor brazing work on the mufflers and downpipes. Other than those points, the engine just drops in and uses the same spinner and spinner bulkheads, but the holes for the prop bolts on the bulkheads have to be enlarged to 1/2".
I anticipated a long search for a O360 and staked out a number of likely websites and forums. Vans AF Classified Ads forum ultimately got me a great engine, 1170 hrs pretty much overhauled after a minor prop strike. The shop bill (from a great shop) was $18,400, which I paid for it, which shows you why the salvage yard engines don't make sense. If you get one for $12K you will have $30K in it and could buy a RAM Lycoming factory rebuilt for not much more. The parts list tells most of the story and it adds up. However, I am anticipating the engine will perform as if it was SMOH. If I had gotten involved earlier I could have included the few parts that would have been necessary for actual SMOH. Once I sell the O320E3D I should be in the $12K-13K range engine wise.
Of course, there was a new prop and I went factory new for a 62 pitch 76 inch prop, same as Archer III. That was $4600 but once I sell the Warrior 74 inch 60 pitch prop (OH by Sensenich) I should be down by a half.
Every engine change at TBO also needs motor mounts, starter (Sky Tech), vacuum pump, alternator (PlanePower) and in this case a modern voltage regulator. The front spinner bulkhead was also cracked and I got held up $930 from Avial as none of the PMA versions were in stock until June (but you know how backorders go). That item was not airworthy in any case so shrug and write the check.
I haven't added up all the numbers, but it doesn't look like, in the end, the result will be dramatically different, after selling the engine and prop, from a O320 new limits overhaul at TBO. Labor was about $3K, not counting the $700 annual and most of the other parts replaced would have been done anyway. Frankly, I think a lot of the airplane ownership numbers are better left untotaled--you found the money and the deals were good so just leave it and go fly.
Speaking of flying, I have about three hours in the plane and the results are great. The air has been pretty turbulent in Central Ohio for the last week so VNO has been limiting me as the yellow arc starts at about 143 mph. Seeing the needle in the yellow arc with below cruise RPM is obviously new to me and shows the difference the HP makes. Climb is much stronger all the way up to cruising altitudes that used to take a while to get to. My takeoff habits are being modified as I always did a quick check of the gauges and glanced at the ASI several times during the takeoff roll. Now, things happen faster with the acceleration so as I pass 50mph and glance down for green needles the airplane is flying before another look at the ASI.
I am happy with this decision and would do it again. Whatever the numbers turn out to be with more testing, the performance is a step up to a new level. Subjectively, the airplane is just quieter and feels more solid. That may be lower RPMs but also a deeper engine note.
Bold-Warrior (CAVU Wings LLC) will also have a new 180 HP STC for the Cherokee 140 and I can't say enough good things about Kent Gorton.
